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Qustion about MGA and Social Responsibility

vor 3 Jahren von Deorko
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vor 3 Jahren

Hello. 

I would like to ask u. 1stly i want to say ive never been gambler since i had a depression due to family tragedy. I made account on Casino "nonamed". In 1st 5 days ive deposited over 13k dollars. I think its the 1st indication to make kyc procedure. Nothing happend. It ended up when i was on 40k deposits during 2 weeks without any interaction. Had cancelled withdrawals (another indicator) Then i got lucky and wanted to withdrawal atleast 17k dollars. During this VIP flag was added to my account WITHOUT ANY VERIFICATION. Then it happend, I was informed I need to do verify myself then I can withdrawal. I send all needed documents, this process needed a lot of tries, during this time I canceled withdrawals again but came back with another withdrawal. After staff asked me what is my opinion on the casino, ive told him my story and that i am gambling only because of depression. This nigh I cancelled again my withdrawals and lost all. Kindly asked if there is willing step to give me atleast money back I had after I told my story about my problem. They said no. Then i tried to put my case on pogg.com where they had long conversation with them and after 4 months of interaction with casino and MGA they decided that after one conversation I have right to have my money back, since I was showing high indicators of problem with gambling. Casino didnt follow they decision which by poggs words is lawly binding and I have to contact MGA. MGA has this on table for 3 months. 

This casino has UKGC and MGA, but since I am not from UK i had to chose MGA. By articles by UKGC a lot of casinos got so high penalties rightly for this and players had refunded. Do u think that MGA has the same look on that sotuation? 

No KYC, no AML, no warning or asking me if i am ok, nothing. It started when i wanted to withdrawal and my withdrawal was up for 12 hours. Previous ones where my withdrawals holds for few hours and then cancelled didnt require anything. 

I am just confused, because on docume ts of MGA states that ADR decisionn should be binding for both parties(operator and player) and operator would not refer player to take this to MGA. 

Thry declined to follow decision of thePogg as it states in their message, but after my case ive found cases where this operator was particulated with ThePogg. 

 

When the ADR result should be binding, can MGA decide tocdont follow their decision and dont give me my money back? 


Thanks and sorry for my english. 


I think this casino really hard breached their social responsibility.

Here is mesaage ThePogg posted on my complaint, even after that Blacklisted this Casino od their site. 

 

We have had a very long conversation with Casino *** regarding this issue.

Having reviewed this case in detail it is the opinion of this service that there was sufficient indications given in your interactions with this operator that the operator should have excluded you on Responsible Gambling grounds.

Before making a ruling we consulted with the Malta Gaming Authority regarding the basic grounds for the ruling and the regulator indicated that they grounds for the ruling sufficient to support the ruling based on what we had shown them.

Having informed Casino *** of this ruling they have explicitly stated that they will not comply with the ruling given and have insisted that the case be escalated to the MGA for review.

It is our understanding that the ADR system in place under the MGA license does not offer any facility for operators to demand such escalation of complaints to the regulator by either player or operator.

The grounds upon which the operator has refused to respect our ruling is the claim that as they have not yet got round to updating their terms and conditions document to include a complaint policy that is compliant with the MGA license they hold. As far as we can see this is unsupported by the ADR Service Agreement they have signed, which explicitly states that the "Effective Date" for the agreement was the 4th of September 2019 and makes no exclusion for the operator having to update their terms prior to coming into effect. As such we view this defence as illegitimate and - in line with our ADR Service Agreement with the operator - consider our ruling to be legally binding.

This case is found in favour of the Player and it is the opinion of this service that the Player is entitled to a refund of losses after the point where Casino ***'s agents should have acted to close their account.

Given that Casino *** have stated their intention not to comply with this ruling we would recommend that you contact the MGA regarding this issue. We will likewise be passing further information on to the regulator about this case.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

vor 3 Jahren

Hallo Deorko.

In diesem Fall gibt es mehrere Probleme. (Zufälligerweise haben wir uns kürzlich mit der schwarzen Liste befasst, die Pogg diesem Casino gegeben hat, damit wir einen guten Überblick haben)

Derzeit ist "verantwortungsbewusstes Glücksspiel" ein großes Thema, und verschiedene Lizenzbehörden haben unterschiedliche Verfahren.

Zum Beispiel haben die UKGC und die schwedische Lizenzbehörde sehr strenge Regeln und in Ihrem Fall würden sie sicherlich zu Ihren Gunsten entscheiden. MGA hat keine so strengen Regeln und daher sind wir uns nicht sicher, wie wir uns entscheiden sollen (aber von dem, was Sie sagen, glaube ich, dass sie Ihnen zustimmen werden). Und dann haben wir Genehmigungsbehörden wie Curacao, Costa Rica, Philippinen, wo, sofern Sie dies nicht ausdrücklich schreiben Probleme mit dem Glücksspiel haben, buchstäblich werden Sie wahrscheinlich keine Gerechtigkeit bekommen. (Es gibt natürlich auch ehrenamtliche Curacao-Casinos.)

Zurück zu Ihrem Fall:

Das Problem hierbei ist, dass das Casino nicht mit der Entscheidung von Pogg übereinstimmt. (Ja, die Entscheidung hätte verbindlich sein müssen und ja, die Entschuldigung, dass sie zuerst auf der Website angepasst werden muss, ist ebenfalls sehr schwach.) Auf jeden Fall denken wir, dass das Casino oder der Spieler, wenn er Zweifel an der ADR-Entscheidung hat, hat das Recht, die Genehmigungsbehörde um Überprüfung des Falls zu bitten.

In Ihrem Fall wäre es gut, wenn Sie sich an die MGA wenden und direkt nach Ihrem Fall und der Tatsache fragen, warum die Entscheidung so lange dauert. Vor allem, wenn Pogg die ganze Angelegenheit bereits mit MGA besprochen hat, denn drei Monate zu entscheiden, ist für MGA wirklich sehr lang.


Automatische Übersetzung
vor 3 Jahren

I was calling them 3 weeks ago.

In that moment they told me "last week we requested documents from operator".

When I called then 3 days ago, they said me, that complaint tram is busy and they will callcme this day, nothing happend so I called again this days and be promised they will contact me next days. And nothing, I am just confused how they sitting on my case like they really dont want tocrefund me trying to find ways with Casino how to do this.

vor 3 Jahren

I understand that it is hard to wait so long. But I am afraid that you need to wait a bit longer. If you already waited for three months, then a few days more doesn't make much difference. I hope that they will decide in your favour. Otherwise, I start to doubt about MGA ruling.

vor 3 Jahren

Its nore than 3 months. From October 2019 to February 2020 The Pogg. Since 20th February to.now MGA.

Deorko
vor 3 Jahren

I am very sorry, but there is no other advice in this situation than to wait a bit more. This decision is the final one, so no more waiting, no other institution or licensing authority. After this decision, it should end. So stay strong and wait a little longer.

vor 3 Jahren

I am waiting... I am just scared, that they will decide to dont refund me.

vor 3 Jahren

A month ago, when I was calling them a get answer that last week they requested some documents from operator, and it would be solved in 1 week, after a month, during period 3 days all agents were busy or already ouf of office

vor 3 Jahren

Today I was calling MGA and they told me that their team is conpleting all documents and decision should be next week

vor 3 Jahren

I think its time to name that Casino. Its Casino Joy under Genesis Global Ltd.

Since I was looking, how MGA deals with refunding players, I fohnd this.

https://www.casinobeats.com/2020/07/20/gambling-commission-hands-interim-licence-suspension-to-genesis-global/


It kinda brings a shine in my case.

vor 3 Jahren

I think that before you start playing and betting you should contact them or find out so that it does not happen again

paulish
vor 3 Jahren

I am done by gambling honestly.


Deorko
vor 3 Jahren

I said that 67times so far.

vor 3 Jahren

I am so flustrated...

Its already 2 weeks they got all documents from operator and still nothing, I was calling them and only thing they told me their team is working on it. When I asked atleast for some timescale, has been told, they cant give any timescale.


I wanted to tell them they are sitting on my case like a dog on his bone.

Deorko
vor 3 Jahren

Congratulations! Mate

vor 3 Jahren

So ive recieved finally the decision and I am shocked.

1)never recieved email about verify my account

2)ive showed multiple sognals of problem gambling, like ammount of depositing, frequency, and played down cancelled withdrawals.

3) anyways is normal to let someone to deposit over 35k dollars without any verification?

4) they didnt absolutely put THEPOGGs decision supported by them in this case, which actually was my only case.

5)honestly, is email where ive told them "ive never been gambler, I started to play due to depression of my grandpa death, ive lost my financial plan to the future and I am glad to have atleast something back and its my worst month of the month" took like something to be stopped from gambling? I think so.


So, here it is.


Dear Mr. XxX,

 

Please accept our sincere apologies for the time it has taken us to revert with a reply concerning your complaint. Further to the below case, please be informed that we have received information from the representative of Genesis Global Limited who have informed the MGA that you have registered your account on 27/04/2019. You have deposited and started to play on 29/04/2019. When your deposit reached 34,250CZH (equivalent to EUR1258.58) they have requested your KYC documents.


As you did not upload your documents they have sent you several reminders on 01/05/2019, 03/05/2019, 05/05/2019 and 23/05/2019. You uploaded your first documents on 17/05/2059 and when they received all the documents they have verified your account on 24/05/2019. They have also sent you responsible gaming material reminding you on their responsible gaming tools.

When on the 26/05/2019 received an email from you in which you showed that you had some problems they have decided to self-exclude your account.

We assure you that as a regulator, we strive to ensure that our licensees adhere to the strictest levels of player protection but we do understand that there are times where gambling ceases to be a form of entertainment for some. Regrettably, no central database facilitating exclusion from all MGA-licensed operators exists and in all honesty even if such a database did in fact exist, it will only protect problem gamblers from accessing MGA-licensed online casinos; accessibility to online casinos licensed under other jurisdictions is still possible, rendering such an approach highly ineffective.

Whilst we are unable to assist you in retrieving money you have wagered, we would like to provide you with an effective means of protecting yourself through the use of blocking software which will completely removes access to any gambling-related websites. If you are determined to remove the temptation altogether, we can make this software available to you free of charge. Naturally, we also recommend approaching professionals who are able to assist you further with your challenges.

If you would like further instructions relating to the free blocking software please let us know and we will send you the necessary information.

 

Regards,



Deorko
vor 3 Jahren

Hallo Doerko.

Ich habe auch kein solches Ergebnis erwartet, insbesondere als Pogg den gesamten Fall mit MGA konsultierte. Leider ist nirgends definiert, wie sich Anzeichen von Abhängigkeit zeigen, und die Lizenzbehörden (einige) verlangen von den Casinos nur, dass sie nach Anzeichen von Abhängigkeit in ihrem Verhalten suchen. Selbst wenn sie sich Sorgen um einen Spieler machen würden, würden sie sein Konto sicherlich nicht sofort schließen, sondern möchten Informationen und Einnahmen von ihm und überprüfen, ob der Spieler nicht abhängig ist und weiter spielen möchte. In Ihrem Fall stehen Sie im Widerspruch zum Recht auf freien Willen.

Zu Ihren Kommentaren:

Ihre Überprüfung wurde innerhalb eines Monats abgeschlossen, und ich würde kein Problem damit sehen. Es ist möglich, dass die Aufrufe des Casinos zur Überprüfung in Spam endeten, und laut MGA versuchte das Casino die Überprüfung.

Ich verstehe, dass für Sie der Betrag, den Sie viel Geld verloren haben, ist, aber das ist sehr subjektiv. Dies ist bei Spielern aus anderen Ländern möglicherweise nicht der Fall. Für solche Situationen gibt es keine Regeln. Ich erwarte nicht, dass jemandes Konto in die Praxis umgesetzt wird, nur weil er die Auszahlung x Mal hintereinander storniert oder einen höheren Betrag einzahlt.

Gegenwärtig hat die strengste schwedische Lizenzbehörde zwei wichtige Bedingungen nicht umgesetzt, nämlich die Überprüfung des Einkommens, wenn der Spieler größere Geldbeträge einzahlen möchte, und den Panikknopf, der beim Drücken des Kontos gesperrt wird. Wenn ein Spieler dennoch spielen möchte, wird es ihn nicht aufhalten.

Das Casino antwortete auf Ihre Nachricht, dass Sie sofort Probleme hatten und Ihr Konto geschlossen wurde. Ich fürchte, es gibt nicht viel zu fangen. Obwohl Pogg sich für Sie entschieden hat, hat sich MGA auf die Seite des Casinos gestellt, und das ist die Entscheidung der Aufsichtsbehörde.

In diesem Fall haben wir leider keine Möglichkeit, Ihnen zu helfen. Es tut uns sehr leid.

Automatische Übersetzung
vor 3 Jahren

This email after they blocked my account was wroten 26.5. Email where I was desribing my feelings (in comentary up there) ive written 24.5.

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